I fucking loved your blog today! This has been an issue of mine too. I can’t stand it when I read about or hear another pole dancer say right off the bat, “No, I’m not a stripper…” and then give a few piss poor words about how they have respect for strippers though. If that was truly the case, that wouldn’t have been the first thing out of that person’s mouth because they wouldn’t have cared. I find it to be very disrespectful! Let’s get a grip and realize why and how we do what we do – Some kick ass strippers came before us. We saw them and their confidence and sensuality and thought to ourselves, “Wow, I want to be like her.” That is what draws people to this, even if just as a sport. People are instantly intrigued by it because of it’s sensual nature. That’s why we all love it. It makes us feel sexy. And here’s a shocker, being adult human beings, we have a sensual nature and it’s good and should be celebrated, respected, and honored. Not regressed and shunned to only be let out when we feel like being “bad or dirty”. There is nothing wrong with it. It’s how God made us. A few people pervert it but that’s no reason to ruin it for the rest of us. The more we treat our sensuality as something dirty, then that’s the more we let it to be abused by others.

I have clients that come in for classes and usually within just the first lesson or two they ask me if I work/have ever worked in a club. They even apologize for asking the question before they even ask it. Why?! It’s an understandable question. A woman who strips is like any other woman that does anything else except she is a lot more confident in herself. She can still be sweet, intelligent, caring, witty, a wonderful mother, and yes even a great wife, or she could be a complete bitch like any other woman working anywhere else, like say the DMV maybe. I do have respect for strippers because I believe they’ve had to bust their ass a lot harder than me. I have it cushy. I started this as a hobby, and it grew from there. I’ve had videos to watch, detailed certifications to go through. I’ve had experienced people to tell me how or how not to do something without me having to just try it in front of an audience and hope I don’t bust my ass. It’s never been a job for me. It’s always been something fun. Professional dancers don’t always have that luxury. I’ve never had to put up with obnoxious drunk men. They work hard. Why judge anyone?

I’ve had people act differently to me or even try to avoid me once I tell them that I’m a pole dance instructor. They hear pole dance and then anything after that just can’t make it through to their brain. I know why. They think I’m a stripper. I don’t bother to correct these people. If they are that closed minded and judgmental, I don’t want them. I would much rather fill my circle with good people with good hearts and good intentions – clothing optional.

BTW, I really appreciate the fact that you use “profanity.” It’s the meaning of a word that counts. We only believe certain words are bad because we’ve been told they are bad. But why? What difference does it make? Although, there are times when I believe there is no possible way to substitute a “swear” word because it will evoke more of the emotion that you are trying to convey. Other times, what difference does it make? If I say “fuck” instead of “oh, no!”, let me say “fuck”. It means the same thing!

I could rant more but it’s late, and it’s not my blog. So, good night!

I once trained a girl who went on to become a teacher. She posted a comment once on a website saying,”I am not and have never been a stripper. I have more self respect for myself than that”. Needless to say on reading this I sighed and sighed again. These women have great examples right in front of them in person and yet they still buy into the good girl/bad girl story which is really just about fearing the power of woman and sexuality. Which can be a deep-running issue but definitely something we are blessed with being able to explore today more than ever. Other women teaching pole dance who were once strippers spend undue energy covering up that very fact. I think it’s a general consensus that girls with a dance background (stripping or otherwise) tend to have a much more graceful approach to pole dancing and are much easier to watch and enjoy. Thanks for the post! It’s well worth taking the time to think about. xx

I love your write up on poledancers/strippers and its about time people out there realise that it does not make you a bad or dirty person to be a poledancer/stripper.I started as an exotic dancer 5 yrs ago because I was working in a gym as a fitness instructor and spilt with my childrens dad after a 10 yr controlling relationship which then messed up my working tax credits.This left me with not a penny 4 two months to feed my 2 young babies.My mum suggested the exotic dancer job in angels in gt yarmouth to which my reaction at the time like everyone elses was disgust,well im glad I put my priorties to feed my kids over my views because it was nothing like I thought and heard of.I have financally supported my kids soley for 5 yrs because of that line of work however I took such a liking to the art of the poledance that with a gymnastic background as a child I self taught myself the dance and tricks over the next couple of years and started giving lessons .My fitness qualifications,gymnastic background and the experience and knowledge of me being a poledance/lapdancer is what made me who I am today,A sucessful company director of poledance uk limited.I train over 100 girls per week and have been established for 3 years. So with out lapdancing clubs I never would of discovered this amazing form of dance so heres to the poledancers wheather they strippers x strippers or just poledance mad who cares we all love it.I have not danced in a club for 5 months but only because I run lessons daily now so heres to you for getting the subject going its about time someone did.I have never lied about what I did even to my kids ,dont judge a book by its cover I say and if they dont like the truth tuff but from my experience Im judged on my performance as a poledance instructor and as a person so I dont think its everyone thats narrow minded.Well done hon and keed up the good work.oH as you prob guessed the double name I have is because of the lap dance profession you use a stage name which was Hollie only it went out on business cards so when I do charity avents my real name is used in the papers .Quite confusing at times however all my girls know me as both .Many thanks Lisa

If you all only knew how nervous I was posting on this topic – I was afraid the political correctness police would swoop down and take me away. But the comments, emails, messages, and tweets have all been fantastic. Thank you all for helping get this conversation going!

Jennifer

I just found this blog and adore it!

And it’s so nice to hear something like this!

Here in Norway pole dancing is available in just one dance studio in the entire country. And even there some girls deny that what they teach has anything to do with striptease. But come on, where do you think it all come from…?

I got interested in pole dancing after visiting striptease clubs here in Oslo. I was mesmerized, couldn’t forget it and kept going to clubs, with my boyfriend along as an alibi.

Then I started studying photography and this spring I shoot my exam project in one of the clubs in town. I was so lucky to get inside and get two professional dancers to model for me over a period of 5-6 months and tell me lots about it. At the same time I finally got the courage to go and take pole dance lessons myself and now I’m completely hooked!

Yet, pole dancing is only at the start of things here in Norway so other people automatically think “oh! striptease!” when I tell them about it and raise their eyebrows. But I don’t mind at all. I’m proud of learning it and mastering the tecnique!

I wouldn’t mind working as a stripper myself, at all. If the job was only dancing and stripping and not all the other stuff, like conversation and selling overprized champagne, in addition!

Keep up the good work!

[...] If you liked this article, you’ll also want to read Strippers and Pole Dancing. [...]

If I may, I want to speak up on the side of the people that prefer to not be confused with strippers… however, please hear me out and understand I’m not trying to insult any of the girls that work in clubs, if that makes sense… Well I guess you’re just going to have to read to understand what I mean…

First off, I don’t like the idea of taking clothes off for money and for the sexual enjoyment of men. I’ve read several stories by girls who work in clubs on the forum I’m on and they have said that not all men are there looking for that. One girl said that there was one guy in particular that was just looking for company in general. While I’m sure that’s true, but the main idea of a strip club is that the girls are there to entertain the men in a sexual way. I don’t like that. My husband has been trying to talk me into going to a strip club with him for ages, and I do like the idea of doing something naughty and spicing up our intimate life, I’m not sure how I feel about doing it that way… In my mind, strippers and prostitutes are the same – selling their bodies for money, visually or physically.

And you can argue about the different kinds of clubs there are out there. Go to Vegas or somewhere like that, you get quite the performance; but it’s still erotic. Go to a small town strip club and you get less of the show, but the intent is still the same.

Also depending on where you go, a stripper doesn’t just imply someone who takes their clothes off for money. Where I live, it also means that they’re a high-school dropout, a druggie, and several other things that mean a shady background. While I realize this isn’t always the case, it’s what is brought to mind and what most of us don’t want to be thought of as. It’s pretty rare when you see a girl who works in a club that also maintains life like everyone else does…

When you hear guys talking about going out to a club, they’re not going out to get a few drinks or to hang out or get something to eat. They’re there to watch some naked girls and get a hard-on (if not, get off…). You can’t sugarcoat that. I don’t see strippers as hard-working women who are doing a job because of that. Yeah they probably do long hours and have to push themselves and have to try very hard… And I’m sure that most of them are nice people, etc. But the issue is what they’re trying to do: put on an erotic show. I don’t insult any other aspect of their character, except that I think that your body should be shared with one other person (husband, boyfriend, whatever), and to do otherwise on that kind of a scale is wrong.

Now here’s where I show more neutrality: If the clubs were more focused on giving a performance and providing entertainment that didn’t include nudity or private lapdances and such, it really wouldn’t bother me so much. If it were just about going and watching girls dance in a more sensual manner, I wouldn’t mind it at all. Heck, girls on the dance floor at the bar is pretty sexual on its own!

Personally, when I dance, I find it’s hard to make it non-sexual. I prefer to dance sexy, it’s easier, looks good, and makes me feel good. Behind closed doors, it’s awesome for me and the husband, too. I have a pair of clear heels and thigh-high boots, too. But those are for our private use. When I’m showing moves to friends, I’m barefoot and wearing only as little as I would need to grip the pole, and I show moves and no dancing just for that reason.

One of the other girls and I are planning on attending an amateur night next month, as well. It’s at a topless club. I’m still struggling with reconciling my feelings about the whole thing, to be honest. However, this much is for certain: I won’t go topless. I’ll be wearing only a little because it’s necessary. I will be dancing more sexually because that’s how I like to dance. I want to give a performance and show my stuff on a pole; I don’t want to be up there to give the guys something to jack off to. I’m sure some guys would be aroused by just the nature of the dancing, but I won’t give them the satisfaction of seeing more skin than necessary. Does that make any sense???

I do give credit to strippers for giving us this wonderful form of art, but I just don’t like the idea of being a sex symbol to men. Stuff like that should stay in the bedroom. I say draw the line just before you get to that point: make it sexy, confident, entertaining, sensual, what have you, but don’t go as far as baring all or getting so dirty that every guy in a half-mile radius has a hard-on. I love the fact that pole dancing is something that can go both ways, I just don’t like how public the more risque side is…

Like I said, I’m still struggling with this all myself. When it comes to the public side of pole dancing, I like to do it for the fun, fitness, and to show talent. I like to see the same. For the private side, make it as dirty and erotic as you would like for that special someone. I just feel when it comes to the clubs that these lines are blurred… I hope this makes sense.

This isn’t intended to start a fight or to insult anyone, I’m just trying to show the other side of the argument.

Finally a blog that rocks my boat! A breath of fresh air!
Pole dancing, stripping, sexuality, erotica…..all those belong together. And that’s what is so liberating about this dance form, it has no limits, no wrong way, no move that’s “too bad”. When you pole dance you just access your sexuality and ride the wave.No apologies, no regrets….just juicy, raw dance. Yes, I strip. A lot. At my living room, at the studio, at my boyfriends house……..and fucking love it. And I am not a professional but just love the art form itself. Practice, practice ladies!There is nothing better after a long day to just dance in an unapologetic way.

Hi everyone,

I am delighted this post is creating such a conversation. I also want to reply specifically to Namara and say that I love that you came right out and stated your perspective on this. That’s exactly what I’m hoping for – a dialogue, and that means all the nuances and differences that we share.

I hear what you’re saying about the sexuality. For me, personally, it’s not the men getting off, though, that bugs me, it’s the power structure in which it happens.

I’ve done a lot of work and research over the years on sex work, sex trafficking, and abusive relationships, and what gets to me is that these women don’t have real control or ownership over their dancing or their sexuality in these situations. The ickiness factor, for me, comes from seeing people not enjoying their own sexuality, but putting on a performance of what they think their sexuality is supposed to be, in order to meet someone else’s expectations.

I wonder what strip clubs would be like if the strippers ran the show. Kind of like how sex workers who have enough power in their lives to not have a pimp and not have to work the street, have a very different experience. To me, it’s the abuse of the sexuality of these dancers and the stealing of their power and ownership over their lives that is the problem, not the sexuality in the dance itself.

But, again, ALL opinions are welcome when presented with respect and truth. So please keep stating what you think. It enriches everybody’s understanding.

Lots of love,
Jennifer

Namara, for someone who states that theyve never been to a strip club, you seemed to have it all figured out.. Im just some drugged out prostitute who is a highschool dropout and doesnt have a real life ‘in YOUR mind’. Dont get me wrong, everyone is allowed their opinions, but how can you justify name calling and comparing exotic entertainers to PROSTITUTES? How can you judge something which you do not know?? I think your opinion probably has alot to do with your own insecurities. Im not trying to start a ‘blog war’ with you either so dont bother regurgitating your already enlightening comment on strippers and strip clubs for a rebuttal..

Jennifer, awesome blog…! I share the same views as everyone else who replied. (except Namara of course, because i happen to NOT be a prostitute or addicted to drugs!)

oh and i liked the ‘swear words’, btw! =)

-karol

The issue about stripping is a complicated one. Even the issue with prostitutes – they aren’t bad girls, either. I don’t think sexuality in your job makes you bad. I also think that sexuality in dance is actually a very helpful thing. But I do think the power dynamics involved in stripping for a living – or, for that matter, in any kind of sex work – create a very problematic situation. It can be very abusive and is often a job of last resort. That’s just the reality, which is something I’m hoping to explore more on the blog.

All I ask is that everyone be respectful of one another. No one person has the all the right answers, and trashing your fellow pole dancers is not okay. Whether you do pole dancing just for fun or whether you do it professionally, you are welcome on this blog. This is not a competition to see which group is the “real” pole dancer.

Stripping is glamorous and frightening, all at the same time. Why? I think we are all taught to have such knee-jerk reactions to the topic that we never look any deeper. I’d like us to look deeper here, together.

After all, who better than all of us pole dancers to explore these issues?

Ironically, the following SOUTH PARK exemplifies what has happened in the stripper vs. pole dance world, it is hysterical, but dead on.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/210813

I agree with points made by everybody… The main thing that urks me is how when some strippers are asked what they do for a living… they respond saying “Im an entertainer” What does that mean?? Could you be any more less specific?

Why not just say, Hey Im a stripper! Its just more straight-forward. If you are happy with what you do and do not find your job degrading… then considering yourself a “stripper” should not be demeaning to you.

I think being a stripper is great, and sexy.. so stop being ashamed to call yourself a STRIPPER. I think a lot of people contradict themselves by sticking up for what they do, saying how its not being a bad girl… yet they cant get up the confidence to say theyre a STRIPPER.

[...] you liked this article, you might also like to read Strippers and Pole Dancing and Sensuality, Sexuality, and Stuck-Up Pole [...]

I agree with Karol. First of all, exotic dancing is 3D entertainment for men who can afford it. It is entertaining just like any show you would pay to go to. Pole dancers (like Karol, you rock girl!)are like athleats, it takes a lot of strength and flexibility no different from gymnastics. Not EVERY stripper is a drug addict or a prostitute and its a shame that Namara would put them in the same category, and insult us when she plans on going to a strip club to compete in amature night? Yea some strippers may do dirty things and give dirty dances (instead of sensual entertaining ones, there IS a difference) but some of us are strictly entertainers.

I’ve been dancing for 3 years, and yes I have seen the hopeless drug addicts and the prostitutes, you just have to realize that these girls are just giving the rest of us a bad name. Give people a chance before pre-judging them.

[...] first popped into my head when I posted on how obnoxious I think it is for pole dancers to look down on [...]

I think you could pole dance in a strip club and never strip. And you could be a stripper and never pole dance with any skillz. Don’t you have to take off clothes to be a stripper or exotic dancer/entertainer…

Great Blog!!!!

I was raised in the circus as a hand balancing performer and when I was old enough I became an aerial artist. We are talking 6 months old until I was 14!

At 18 I couldn’t handle a full time job and college at the same time so I started stripping in Eugene Oregon.

Now 15 years later I still strip (the money is just to good and easy, it is my own personal silent investor). But I also own a magazine, Nude Ambition (mag.com) catered for the Lingerie Entertainment Industry. Nude Ambition recently won 5 awards. I have been so fortunate to have traveled from Japan to London seeing the most AMAZING pole performers in strip clubs.

The difference I have found between stripper pole performers and pole fitness performers is that strippers know how to work the audience during their performance. And coming from a circus background, this is not easy to do!!!!!

I would have to say Jenyne Butterfly and Daniel (cirque de sole) are the only exceptions I have YET to see who have not been strippers and are truly the best pole performers I have seen.

This discussion pretty much boils down to a question of peoples’ stereotypes about things they know little about. Now I’m a physicist so I meet lot of people have some rather funny ideas about what a physicist is and what kind of person I am because of that. I won’t bore you with the details but just state that in a lot of peoples’ minds a physicist is a thin nerdy guy lacking social skills. While this is true for some people it is obviously not true for others but the stereotype sticks.

So if prejudices and stereotypes are only true for some members of a specific group, why do we have them? Well, they help us in navigating in a big world. It gives us an idea of who others are. The most common question when meeting a new person is “so, what do you do for a living?” because we attribute certain personality traits to different kinds of jobs. OK; so what kind of stereotypes are usually associated with strippers? Lets start with the basic assumptions. A stripper is a person who gets money for taking her (or his) clothes of in front of an audience. It’s hard work with long working hours and mostly during the evening/night/weekend. Most people I know would find it uncomfortable to be half-naked in front of a lot of other clothed people and would also find it difficult to lead a “normal” family life with the before-mentioned working hours.

So the question is; why would you want to become a stripper? Here I see (at least) 2 obvious answers.
1: because you think it is the best and most rewarding job you ever had. You love to perform and you own the audience when you get on the stage. Maybe it even gives you a feeling of power
2: You don´t have any other options. Striptease is one of very few well-paid jobs where formal training is not required. You put up with the drunk men and the bad hours, you don’t own the audience; they and the club owner own you.

Option number 1 is all the powerful women who write in this forum and admit that they are strippers. Option number 2 are the high school dropouts, the sad ones with different kinds of psychological problems (with or without additional drug problems), the single mums with no education etc etc.

My uninformed guess is that in the business you will find more of the second than first kind. I have only ever met two strippers/pole dancers so this is mostly from what they have told me. What is more important is that your average white middle-class woman (and here we have another screaming stereotype) will subscribe to option 2 because they can’t conceive that option number 1 could ever be true about anyone.

This bring us the the final topic of my post. How do we change the prejudices and stereotypes that people have in the heads? Well, I don’t know. I do know that yelling at someone and calling them names will get you nowhere. In my experience, not being as the stereotype predicts has very little impact on other peoples’ views (they just classify you as the exception that confirms the rule). I hope that pole dancing as a fitness or sport can help break down some walls together with websites like this one where people can share experiences and stories but I won’t get my hopes up.

I don’t always tell people I’ve just met that I’m a physicist if I think they will get the wrong idea. And I don’t always tell people that I pole dance if they will label me as category 2 stripper. I am proud of who I am and what I do but if people understand words differently than me communication gets difficult. Same goes for stripper. People inside and outside that business will understand that single word differently. So if your average Jane Housewife will understand “exotic entertainer” better that “stripper” I see no harm and no degradation in that.

And to poke another stereotype in the eye. Pole dancing is not a “women only” thing. Come December I’ll be taking pole dancing classes at a new studio together with my husband.

Ps. I just figured out what “skivvies” means. LOL. A truly fitting name!

Great points, Heidi – as always. Can’t wait to hear how your husband is doing in pole class!

I work with a guy who felt like he could say anything he wanted to me because of my pole dancing. HE seemed to think nothing was off limits and got his ass turned into HR for it. This is why I say pole fitness to non polers.

Flat out – inside or outside of a club I do not deserve to be demeaned because I swing around a pole.

The problem IS society. They cannot understand that a woman working in the sex industry has chosen to work there. they cannot fathom that she might actually have a set of moral guidelines because they differ from mainstream moral guidelines.

It comes down to having to deal with a lot of drama I wish not to deal with and being treated in ways that no matter where you are – is an unacceptable way to treat someone.

Pole Fitness- is also an easier sell to clients. I would rather have them enter the pole world in as little baby steps as they need.

Pole Dancing is a huge things for most women, they fear what their family will think, they aren’t yet comfortable in their own skin, they have all the years of bad stereotypes about pole dancing and stripping in their head to overcome…so if someone feels better doing lunges next to the pole and some more athletic exercises – that is fine with me. I don’t want anyone to think they must be be sexy to pole or must dance sexy. I want people to feel like if they just want to do pole tricks they can – I’d prefer them to dance but I don’t want to make choices for other people. I want everyone to feel comfortable and have fun. No matter what style they want to do or what background they have I want them to know that they can dance like no one is looking in my class and have a great time and learn in a safe environement.

I teach strippers and non strippers alike in my classes. I am glad that my strippers feel like they can tell me – which is helpful because I help them try to avoid as much bruising as possible.

I’d also like to see more conservative types of women get into pole dancing. I’d like to see them see that you can be sexy without reprecussion and it’s not wrong to be sexy or beautiful.

The biggest thing I hear from students after the first class is – “I have so much more respect for strippers – this is hard!” So, I think while the statement may sound disrespectful, that they are beginning to see that the pole aspect of stripping demands a lot of physical strength and there is a lot of pain involved to put on a good show. I think that tiny glimpse into the world of a dancer is good. It’s the beginning of recognizing that strippers/dancers are humans with feelings and that their job requires a lot more than being pretty and giving lapdances.

Stripping in of itself is a tough occupation. The rejection, the insecurity, the sales pitches – you have to be cut out for it. I think alot of people don’t know what goes into it and the constant pressure.

So, personally I don’t want to take the sensuality, sexuality out of pole dance but I would like to create a safe place for EVERYONE to learn about themselves, each other and share their love of pole dancing.

At the end of the day, we are all people.

I really admire women that know the art of pole dancing. I took a class once and it’s definetly not as easy as it looks. It certainly takes a lot more physical strength than one would imagine.
I would love to take more lessons however, due to a screwed up neck and surgery I don’t think it would be possible! So, leave the pole dancers alone. They are beautiful, sexy and very sensual.

A small embarrassing anecdote: Last weekend I was at a birthday party. I only knew the hostess and I know her through pole dance class. She has a degree in theater and dance science (and her twin sister studies computer science) so all the guests were academics. Since most people at the party didn’t know each other the hostess gave a short introduction explaining who everyone were and what they did. I was “a friend from pole dance who is also a physicist”. Later in the evening a guy (a historian no less) asked if I pole danced for a living. To my shame my gut reaction was less than ideal. No, I didn’t chew his face off but it was a close thing. I think I managed to say no in a reasonable tone of voice, but what I really wanted to do was to slap him down verbally. And in hind sight I even think he meant it quite innocently. He was basicly just curious.
A sobering reminder that no matter where you stand on a subject intellectually your first instinctive reaction when someone sticks you with a sticky question will always tell you what you actually feel about that subject.
At least now I know what my reaction is next time someone asks that question and I can come up with a better response than baring my teeth and growling. I hope.

@Heidi – it’s so true that our initial responses are more indicative of how we feel than our mental ones. I think we react to the sneer – expected or implied – and come out fighting. Maybe one day, regardless of whether we’re pole dancing for fun or as part of professional stripping, there won’t be any sneer.

I love this post!!!
Eventhough my vids are mostly tricks based, I really really would Love to dance like the girls in the clubs ( unfortunately,i look too stiff and clumsy,but hey,im still practicing).
Coming from Malaysia and living in Singapore,where its very conservative,i dont see anything wrong with the pole dancing and stripper connection.
I see them as pole goddess,and i hope to be able to move like them oneday.
Jennifer,this is a great blog!!

Oooooh this post and all of its comments make me so happy! I could not agree with you more Jennifer, this split between stripper and pole dancer is not a helpful one. I just finished writing the first part of The Pole Dancer’s Guide to the Anti-Poler and one of the things I talk about straight away is the importance of reconciling this split. What makes pole dancing such an empowering practice for women is that it offers them a chance to explore and express their sexuality in mainstream setting without some of the stigma that our strip club sisters have experienced. If we take away the erotic part of pole dancing, or somehow make it “different” from what the clubs are doing and therefore more “acceptable” we are simply perpetuating that nasty little madonna/whore split that keeps our sexuality in chains.
The issue of exchanging money for sexual favors is a complicated one. In general, a woman who chooses to accept money for displaying her sexuality, or even a woman who takes pleasure in displaying her sexuality is looked own upon. Never mind that the idea that a woman can choose what she wants to do with her body stops short when it comes to her sexuality. Never mind that selling your eggs or your uterus in the name of surrogate motherhood is completely accepted, but selling it for sex is not.
I think what it comes down to is choice. A woman who is choosing to strip as a last resort is not really making a choice. She is being forced into something for economic or other reasons. This is not empowerment and it is an unfortunate side to the sex work scene.
However, a woman who freely chooses to either strip for money, pole dance for cash prizes, or maybe just perform in her local studio’s recital is making a very conscious choice to display and take pleasure in her sexuality. Which is fantastic and empowering,in my opinion.
The whole pole fitness argument is a great place to start when introducing people to pole dancing. But it’s not enough. If all you were really interested in was fitness, there are a million ways to get fit that do not involve swinging around a pole in fuck-me boots. And most people who have a problem with pole dancing are going to quickly point that out to you. Because it’s the sexiness of it all that bothers them. I understand the argument that it’s private for some people, and I respect that. But what I ask in return is that you respect my decision to display my sexuality in the ways that give me pleasure.

A woman who is choosing to strip as a last resort is not really making a choice.

@Claire – I love the way you put that!

I feel like I’m kind of late on entering this, but …

Maybe I read Namara’s post differently than some of the others did, but I kind of understand what she means when she busts out the ‘drug addict’ stereotype, and I don’t think it was meant to be as offensive as it was interpreted.

I come from a reasonably small area. We only have one strip bar here and it’s a pretty grungy, worn down place. And to be honest with you, most of the time when I go there with friends, when the stripper goes on stage it’s not hard to tell that she is either high or drunk.

Now, I just want to make it clear that I UNDERSTAND that this is NOT the cookie-cutter version of every stripper. I get it. There’s no need to beat me over the head for being ‘naive’ or ‘judgmental’ or being stereotypical or whatever. It’s just a fact from where I live. And yes, I HAVE gone to strip bars in the city where the women are great to watch and the entire experience is a very positive one. But obviously if our local strip bar is run-down and gross, high-end good performing strippers are not going to spend time busting their asses for the two or three drunk men there on a Tuesday night.

Now, this is where defensiveness of pole dancing vs. stripping comes into it for me.

When you live in a town where people go to said bar, see said strippers, and make their opinions on pole dancing and dancing erotically based on the profiles of people who are not often sober while performing, that is what they see when you bring up pole dancing. And unless the people I talk to about it are just in general very accepting people, or they’ve actually driven the 2-4 hours to the city to see some good exotic dancers, they will automatically pin that stereotype onto me as if that naked, stoned girl they’ve seen on stage is someone I’m trying to become.

So yes, in the past when someone’s asked me if I’m practicing to become a stripper, I got offended. I would throw the old ‘well, it’s for fitness’ excuse at them and hope it would keep their minds occupied enough that I could duck away from them before they came up with something demeaning to say. I would purposely deny any suggestion that I had ever danced sexually while at my pole, because that would destroy my ‘just fitness’ facade and leave me with nothing to protect myself from their mean, judgemental words.

However, I recently read ‘The Pole Dancer’s Guide to the Anti-Poler’ (what a coincidence I’m posting after the author!) and I had the light-bulb moment that, y’know what, there’s nothing wrong with being sexy. There’s nothing wrong with grinding on my pole if I think it’s going to look good, and make me feel good. And most of all there’s nothing wrong with admitting it. And the sad thing is that in reality, I always knew all those things were true, but the opinions of other people always seemed to matter to me more than what I knew was real.

In conclusion (it’s an essay now! haha) I think what it’s going to need to come down to in order for pole dancers to not lay a load of shit on the idea of being called a stripper, is self-confidence. Until you’re comfortable enough with your own decision to do what you do and not care if someone generalizes you as a stripper that they associate with being dirty, or out of options, you’ll always be afraid of being called something you aren’t.

As for me, the next time a friend, or acquaintance, or colleague asks me if I’m practicing to become a stripper, instead of becoming defensive, my answer will just be, ‘If I were, would it matter?’ Because in the end, as far as I’m concerned, it no longer does. If they don’t like it, then I don’t need them.

@workingfire – I love that response; I’ll have to try it out next time! And I think you made a good point as to where that viewpoint on strippers – and reaction to being called a stripper – can come from. It’s hard holding strong with your own perspective in the face of judgmental people, that’s for sure.

I personally love strippers and I agree with practically everything with the exception of strippers being the same as prostitutes! WTF?! As pole dancers we should feel blesses that strippers allowed us into “their world”

@workingfire – you have a great point about where people are getting their perceptions of strip dancing and how that can change their perspective on what it is you are doing. An unfortunate part of stripping is that some of the women who do it are not there because they want to be. This lack of choice, combined with the stigma of stripping, can probably wreak some havoc on their psyches. And may I say that I am THRILLED with your newfound response and uber-confidence with being sexual and sexy!

I think it’s very interesting how so many woman take away their own power by assuming stripping “is not a choice.” It is a choice to strip or not, one that I considered myself when money got tight. In the end I chose something different because I wanted a different path, NOT because I have a problem with stripping.

The most upsetting part of the whole conversation to me is how some pole dancers are framing strippers as victims simply because they can’t believe anyone would be an exotic dancer on purpose. Just because you don’t understand a choice doesn’t make it necessarily wrong.

Everyone has obstacles that they must overcome (money, relationships, natural disasters) but that doesn’t mean we should treat them as victims forever. We are most powerful & most human when we make a choice & live with the consequences… good, bad, or simply different than the norm.

Just because you wouldn’t choose to strip doesn’t make a stripper less powerful or capable. We all have a different journey to take. Some people take that journey through pole dancing, some through stripping, and some through both. Personally, I believe all paths lead to the same thing… personal growth. Finding your true path is the most empowering action you can take. Wouldn’t you rather learn to walk your own path with honor than throwing stones at someone else?

@Yannori: I very much agree with your statement about women being disempowered because no one believes that they would actually CHOOSE to become a stripper. I have also considered stripping and also chose to go a different direction. Pigeonholing strippers as victims is demeaning and takes away from the fact thatsome women really do enjoy their jobs! I also really love what you said about it all leading to a path of personal growth.
With that said, I do think there are women who strip as a last resort, and it is my belief that doing anything as a last resort can hardly be classified as choosing. When I read or hear about strippers who are drunk and high on the job, I don’t get the impression that they actually want to be there and that they are enjoying their work at all. And in this case, they are victims: victims of a socio-economic structure that leaves very few job choices to women who are in dire economical situations. I’m not saying that we should brand them as victims forever, or that some women don’t learn to love their job, nor do I mean to take away from the women who ARE there because they want to be.
And I wholeheartedly agree that it is better to spend your energy discovering your own path than picking apart and judging other people’s choices!

. We are most powerful and most human when we make a choice and live with the consequences … good, bad, or simply different than the norm.

@Yannori – I love that!

I wish I’d come across this earlier–such a fascinating topic. Yes, I cringe when I see that oft repeated sentence “I pole dance but I am not a stripper, ” because it was, in fact, a stripper who first inspired me to invert and take the plunge into poledancing for real. Anyone who has followed my videos and comments over the last 2 years probably knows who I am talking about. And the first thing I always think when I read these kinds of You-Tube profiles and Facebook posts is ..”How does that make ***** feel?” Who wants to wake up every morning and read the sentence “I practice the art you gave me, but thank God, I am not like you.” That must surely be very hurtful and soul destroying for her and other exotic dancers.

I want to be honest about my feelings and not come off as “holier than thou” or hypocritical. I am sure that if my own daughter wanted to be an exotic dancer, I would struggle with it. There are a lot of assumptions and stereotypes that go with this profession and I know I am not immune to them. I sort of got my come-uppance a few weeks ago about this topic when one of the polers I know decided to dance at a club for the first time. I was shocked at my own strong feelings about it–actually spent the entire day at work completely distracted…thinking about WHY I was so affected by it. I decided that part of it was jealousy and resentment, maybe…of the power that she had assumed by doing it. After mulling it over for a few days, I decided that my feelings were out of proportion…out of line, but it did give me some insight into just how powerful feelings can get about this issue…esppecially for a guy.

Can I suggest one reason why feelings are so strong among women about the “stripper” issue? Men dominate and control society on so many levels…but women have the ONE thing we CAN’T control directly (lol, you know what I mean!) And I think among some women, maybe there is some resentment towards other women who will “go farther” (even if it just a performance, which is all a lap dance is, anyway!) than others. So these women get singled out as “sluts” or “whores” …or whatever. And maybe the pole dancer versus stripper thing is a little bit like that: a situation where women get divided over competition for men? Does that make sense?

One other thing–since getting into pole and You-Tube, and Facebook and all that, I’ve interacted casually in chat with a number of the ladies who dance professionally and/or do nude or fetish modeling. One thing I have noticed is that their spelling and grammar tend to be impeccable. They tend towards intellectual hobbies, gaming, reading. Several are multilingual–I know one that speaks 4 languages. I haven’t met a “dumb stripper” yet! /joel

@Joel – Glad to see you found this thread!

[...] of my pole dancing pet peeves is that people think all dancers are strippers which is so not true. It’s an [...]

This is by far one of the best blogs I’ve ever read. I really respect everyones opinion. I’ve been a dancer, stripper, adult performer, burlesque dancer for over 14 years. I’ve also worked mainstream jobs and I have an education. I have never been a drug addict but have done things out of desperation. Things I’m not proud of but it doesn’t make me a horrible person. I pole dance for connection. Which is the one thing we all have in common. Vertical Fitness, pole dancing, stripping are all connected. I teach and dance to express my emotions, release energy and stroke my ego when needed. Pole
dancing isn’t always about sex, it can be about creativity, self confidence and being able to share it with other women who have no desire to take it to the club. That’s ok. There is an amazing sisterhood in and out of the clubs. Remember girls, everyone has there own views of what they think are wrong or right

It’s great to have this conversation, because I was just having it tonight with my pole friends!

The fact is that strippers and pole dancers are not the same thing, but rather there is crossover in the community. They aren’t the same thing because not every stripper is a pole dancer and not every pole dancer is a stripper. Some strippers use the pole in their job, but many do not and stripping by definition (the removing of one’s clothes, usually for money) does not necessarily have to involve athleticism or dance, as pole dancing does. If you go to enough strip clubs in America (not just Vegas and the big cities), you will quickly learn that finding strippers with genuine pole skills (not just using it as a prop) is actually rare (this is changing as more strippers are being encouraged by the pole community and pole’s popularity to learn). It’s also important to realize that as any pole dancing stripper will tell you, the majority of their night is spent not on a pole, but giving lap dances, because that’s where the money is. So even those that do work with a pole, do other things in their job not utilizing it, so it’s not a strictly pole-based profession for them.

That stripping inspired most of what the pole community is doing now (but don’t forget that there is chinese pole dance, etc.) and that there are some really amazing pole dancers who happen to be former or current strippers, should never be hidden or “shit on,” but it’s also important to realize that they aren’t the same thing. I don’t associate myself as stripper and don’t wish to because it’s factually not what I am and why I started. It would be like introducing myself as a surfer or not correcting someone when they called me that, when I’m actually a snowboarder. And like with strippers and pole dancing, some surfing community members invented/inspired snowboarding and many of the best surfers also snowboard and vice versa. But they’re definitely not the same thing and they have their own communities, despite having crossover. This analogy to me is really the best way to explain it. It’s not about bad vs. good girl, it’s about apples and oranges.

But, because of some comments that I’ve seen, let’s talk about the crossover. Something that hasn’t come up, is that many of the pole community idols were strippers, but when they compete in competitions or do interviews, it’s not in their bio and don’t talk about it, often claiming that they started in other ways (in fact, I realized tonight that many people don’t even know that a lot of these pole stars even were). And do we really think that it’s because they are ashamed because the pole community makes them feel so? Or even public opinion? Not if you ask them. Most of the pole star former strippers will tell you that they were on hard times, and it was the best option. And most people don’t want their present or future to always be associated with decisions that they made during hard times.

And this is because at the heart of it, stripping is not a glamorous job and those who are glamorizing it on this board seem to not have done it or not have been to many clubs. Yes, there are current pole dancing strippers who are in touch with their sensuality and happy in their profession, but this is the exception, not the rule, and it just happens that the exceptions tend to be active and vocal in the pole community (as generally confident women are in their hobbies). Most strippers turn to it in hopes that the money will help get them somewhere else, most do not strip for a long time, most have a “dead/bored” look in their eyes when they work and so many have gotten into drugs or come from situations of abuse with men in their past that this stereotype has arisen for a reason. Most in the profession have a hard job and hard life, and do not make the kind of money that Vegas girls make (there are strip clubs literally all across America). We should be careful to glamorize something as “freedom” that in the majority of it’s form, is a situation of women not doing something that would be their first option and almost always working for a male owner. Being honest about the profession, to me, is in fact being more supportive of the women in it because it allows us to see them as humans, deserving of compassion and deserving of having their story heard before assumption, because, yes, their story could be that they love it!

[...] back when I first started this blog, I did a post on strippers and pole dancing. This came about because I was getting really ticked off at pole dancers doing the “I’m [...]

It’s really good to find a blog with this opinion. The only complaint I’ve ever had about my pole classes (other than “ouch”) has been the distinction they’re desperate to make between what we do and stripping, or indeed anything sexual. I found it almost impossible to keep a straight face when being taught to crawl across the floor whilst being told that there was “nothing sexual” about poledance.

Personally, I’d love to strip and really wish I could get additional classes in it at my pole dance school. As it is, I guess I’ll just get to go to lots of strip clubs and call it “research”. Win! It’s just a shame ‘A cup’ boobs mean I probably wouldn’t ever make my fortune at it.

On a more serious note, I do think that the current popularity of pole dance gives us an opportunity to make small advances in the perception of sexual women in general. Whenever I get the automatic “So, like a stripper, then?” my immediate response is “Oh, I wish!” It usually gets a quizzical look, which allows me to start a discussion about how I’m not highly skilled or dedicated enough to do such a demanding job, and that I have nothing but admiration for those who are. Coming from a neuroscientist who graduated from one of the top universities in the world, this has changed a few people’s minds.

I think that is is vitally important that we distinguish the two.

Wow, another one coming into the conversation very late!
I am Australian student, and have just come back to university this year after 2 years of full time work. I’ve been pole dancing for about 3 months now, and have never enjoyed anything so much. Every time I learn a new spin or trick it makes me feel so in control of my body, which in itself is a very sexy feeling. I also love to show off my moves to friends, and am always taping my new routines.
I’ve recently made the decision to pursue this love of pole and start dancing at strip clubs. Financially, while the good money will be amazing, I’m really just as well off as a lot of my friends who are working full time, so I don’t need the money. I’m choosing to do this because it’s something I enjoy and because I can develop my pole dancing skills further.
I don’t know how I’ll feel once I’m up on stage taking my clothes off, but if I like it, then it’s the best way for a student to make money that I know of, and, when it’s a choice, is one of the most empowering things a woman can do – to feel 100% confident in her own skin.

i really think there is a fine line between dancing…stripping.. prostitution…acting in movies.. and i really do not understand how people can overgeneralize. yes, a lot of times the stereotype is true. but, does that affect anyone that does NOT go into a strip club? mind your own business. i am a dancer. i know that i sure dont look at all the men that go in there as dollar signs… and not all of us girls are just talentless whores with no self- respect. unfortunately, there are girls who ruin that reputation for the rest of us. but it goes like that in any crowd. i just dont even see the point of looking down on dancers. hell, i dont even look down on prostitutes. doesnt affect me. if they can sleep at night, no one loses out. men get what they want, babies get fed. period.

What first stirred in me the desire to pole dance was going to a strip club every so often with a female friend and watching the girls dance. I couldn’t take my eyes off them, I was so entranced by their strength and beauty. I would ignore everyone else in the club, including my friend, and just stare, the whole night. I see strippers now the way I did back then: as spinning goddesses.

I am so glad I found this… again, I know I’m very late but I just felt like I had to comment. I just started taking pole classes two months ago and I love them! I really am not sure why I started. I think I was partly curious and also saw a friend on facebook who’s in Med School with her display pic as her on a pole. I think I said “Hey.. I’ve heard of this. I bet I can do it, too!” but I really don’t know. Anyway, lately I’ve been having the argument with a vecry good male friend of mine about the pole dancer versus stripper. I showed him the video on youtube of the highlights from the USPD championships and his first response was “Come on… they’re all strippers”. It made me so mad!! Why did they all have to be strippers?? Just because someone dances doesn’t mean they strip and vice versa. Judging by this blog it looks like I was right on that point, at least.

Since then, I’ve become a little bit more comfortable with the idea of those professional dancers also being strippers. Why not? I think the big problem is not just society’s perception, but the female perception of stripping. For me, anyway (I’m in my early 20s, so no, I’m not 100% confident in myself), I think of strippers and strip clubs and I think to myself “what do they have that I don’t?” and I start to get pretty insecure. Sure, I’m pretty, but my boobs aren’t big and I sometimes struggle with my weight. That’s just the way it is. And I think that some women (myself included, at times) get insecure that their men go to strip clubs for entertainment. I honestly do think that’s why some of them go- pure entertainment. I have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn’t even really be bothered with my boyfriend getting a lapdance. My problem is with those performers who take it to the next level.

A female friend of mine was taken out to a very popular strip club in downtown Toronto this weekend and was bought 10 minutes worth of lap dances by her male coworkers. They got her the “bustiest” girl there, who then proceeded to push her boobs in her face, and throughout the dance tried to shove her “hooha” (my friend’s words, not mine) in her face and also gave herself the shocker!! And let me make it clear that this friend did NOT appreciate this! It’s stories like this that make me wary of strip clubs. I KNOW not all strippers are like this, and I am NOT putting them in all the same category. But this was happening in the CLASSY part of this strip club. For me, anyway, I can just picture a guy in the same situation and I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be sitting there getting traumatized like she was. I will be the first to admit I have never been to s strip club and I do not know what the norm is, but her story really bothered me.

I am much more comfortable being lumped in with strippers, if that’s what the general public wants to do. I do believe that the good ones are confident, strong women, and are certainly very good at what they do. But I do not want to be classified as one of the women I described above. Maybe it’s as some of you have said- it’s how she displays her sexuality. I just find it very, very hard to accept, especially when such explicit acts were not asked for. Maybe I’m naive, please let me know if I am. I’m still trying to figure everything out.