Strippers and Pole Dancing
Isn’t pole dancing like, um, STRIPPING?
We’ve all heard it, we all know that view is out there. Yet we all pussyfoot around the issue because, hey, we do POLE FITNESS. We do VERTICAL DANCE.
You know what I say to that? Bullshit.*
We pole. We spend as much of our free time as humanly possible on a pole. And, ladies,**
we all know that everybody’s first impression is that it’s a stripper pole. Heck, Lil Mynx calls it a stripper pole, for Christ’s sake – it’s their fucking URL.
So why all this us/them, good girl/bad girl, virgin/whore bullshit?
Let me ask you this: how many of you learned how to pole from working the clubs?
And, of the rest of you, how many of you learned to pole FROM someone who used to work at the clubs?
My take on it is, pole is not very far removed from strippers. And when you see how many schools teach the “stripper walk,” or lap dance classes, or sell 6-inch kick-ass bondage fuck-me boots, you got to ask yourself, what are we pretending not to see?
Every now and then, the issue of dancing in the clubs appears on the forums and, lo and behold, a lot of people seem to know a lot about them. So, I want to talk about the stripping. I want to talk about the clubs. I want to talk about pole and sexuality and all the unspoken stuff about stripping and pole dance.
What I see too much of in the pole dance community is the sense that we have to clearly separate ourselves from strippers. We have to make it clear that we are DIFFERENT. We are ARTISTS.
I know we are all supposed to be good girls, and I know strippers are supposed to be bad girls. But I also think we all realize that strippers are good girls, too – that there are no bad girls. Just girls like me and like you and like all the pole dancers we know.
Stop crapping on the strippers
What I want is for us to be able to be proud of our art form without crapping – or feeling forced to crap – on the strippers. The strippers brought us this gift, often from some very difficult circumstances, and I think it’s spitting in their faces to constantly pretend we are different from them. Because that really means better than they are, which is mean and untrue and I don’t like it.
So, can we please start a dialogue here about what we really think and know about strippers and strip clubs, and what we really feel about that?
Let’s stop judging and start talking
No political correctness. No worries about being in the minority on this one. Whatever your views, I want to hear them. You’ve heard mine. I’m not going to judge you if you disagree with me, and I’m not going to let others get away with judging you, either. Just tell me why you feel the way you do. Honestly, I don’t want to create a big pole dancing schism; I just want to start the conversation, and I’m hoping my own point of view will broaden in the process, too.
Where do strippers and pole dancing intersect, and what are our feelings about that?
XOXO
Jennifer
*Since this is a new blog and we’re all still getting to know one another, I thought I’d just come right out and tell you: I swear. Sometimes, I swear a lot. Today is one of those days. You have been warned: I swear to punctuate my thoughts, I swear to liven up a sentence, and sometimes – like, say when I stub my toe on the base of my pole – I let loose with a string of filthy and descriptive expletives that would tarnish the ears of your average sailor. Just giving it to you straight; I’m a lovely girl, just happens I’m also a total potty-mouth. Consider it part of my charm. 
**Yes, I know not only ladies pole dance, but I think we get sneered at for being like strippers in a way the male pole dancers don’t. Let me know if I’m wrong, fellas. I’m guessing you guys get sneered at plenty, too – just in other ways.
@Shelly Ann – Catherine Rose is right! There are plenty of studios out there that aren’t going to give you any grief. If you can’t find any, try searching on the pole forums and see who they recommend in your area. You just need to find the right pole home for you!
@Shelly Ann
There are a number of pole studios that do NOT slut shame or include stripper judgments in their curriculum. Some instructors and studio owners are former stripper themselves. Don’t give up!
Well this was interesting, I am a stripper and I am looking to get my own at home pole and I know I would need a mat just to feel more safe when I decide to “pole” and yes the benefits of working my own pole at home will translate when I am at work in the clubs. When I found this blog I wasn’t expecting to read something like this but I am glad it is talked about, the whole good girl does pole fitness and bad girl is a stripper is pretty much the whole shaming and slut-shaming which pretty much tries to create tension between women and society as a whole which frankly needs to stop. I always knew doing pole tricks was a difficult skills and when I use to dance many years ago I was completely afraid of the pole and I was too scared to ask the girls how did they do that cool spin or flip underside down. Yes since no pole dancing is more mainstream I am more incline to try it out because now I see there is more of a community with learning the skill, but I sure not going to go to a studio and have try and shame me for using the skills to translate into my work and into creating an income.
@Poleskivvies, I looked over the website after stumbling on this page and I love a lot of the clothes you guys offer. I was looking for something to wear other than my usual stuff so glad I found my way to your lovely page. I really dedicated myself to it 6 months ago, but I have wanted to do it for over a year. Seeing performances like Felix Cane inspired me. She showed me pole dancing didn’t have to look trashy or overly sexy and that you didn’t have to be naked. After my first class I fell in love! But I pole for myself, it’s an art form to me and a sport. While I have a lot of friends who do strip I actually have more skill on the pole. But I do feel that’s because I do this for me and for the love of pole. Not other people or money. It takes on a different life! I’m sure you know what I mean. Love the site. Pole on!
@Andriana -
Just saw your comments come in – I really appreciate your contributing to the discussion!
It’s interesting to see how this issue has changed since I started PoleSkivvies back in 2009 – pole has definitely moved more into the sports side of things. That doesn’t surprise me – in fact, it’s why PoleSkivvies is athletic apparel and not costuming.
Sounds like pole is a sport you love – how long have you been studying it?
Like one of the other women on here said. There is a difference between doing this for yourself (a dancer) and for money (a stripper). I don’t need the money or the attention or talking to creepy men who are my father’s age to love what I do. Plus I have a loving boyfriend… I wouldn’t want him getting naked for other women so I wouldn’t show my body to other men. I have more respect for my relationship than that. That being said if you are single, do you.
I can see how people compare the two all the time. But to me, it depends on the person ad what you are doing. I pole dance for fitness reasons therefore I wouldn’t refer to myself as a stripper, however I wouldn’t take my clothes off for money. Whether that be stripping or escort service or any other reason. That’s the kicker for me. The difference is I don’t get naked infront of men. I love dancing. Dancing on a pole alone is enough for me, I couldn’t careless if anyone is watching or paying or not. If I loved getting naked for money then I would be a stripper. I am a pre-med student. And those are just the things that set this all apart for me. You can love dancing without getting naked for men and I don’t think people should coin you as a stripper. A lot of women say the stripping part is empowering, but honestly… by society’s standards it isn’t. I haven’t heard my guy friends laugh at or mock dancers… just strippers. So again, depends on the person.
I am a poledancer and former stripper. I think poledancing gives you confidence and that is sexy. Whether in the clubs or in your own bedroom. We would come in early and work on the pole with more experienced girls. I was fortunate that the ones who taught me safety first, and to point my toes. They are some very good performers in the clubs. It is an art form of creating a fantasy of a ‘perfect women”. I like to think of it as Geisha with a western twist. And yes they are negative stereotypes of us. Some do get caught in a “rock star” lifestyle. I am glad I danced I always loved to dance. It gave me a creative outlet, an acceptance of my body as it is. It connected me with other creative people. And I have met some really fascinating folks and had wonderful conversations. The sisterhood is great too.
Be sure to tune in to the radio interview I’m doing with Bethany St. James. She is an author on sex issues and a legal prostitute in the U.S. and has a very interesting perspective to share with us. You can tune in (or replay, once it’s aired) here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/poleskivvies/2012/03/04/bethany-st-james
I thought those of you who commented on this post might be interested in this interview with Sheila Hageman, author of the Pole Position. You can listen to it here: http://poleskivvies.com/pole-dancing-clothing/2012/03/sheila-hageman-of-the-pole-position/
Let me preface this by saying that I’m a stipper, and have been for 13 years (started dancing when I was 18). I’m also a visual artist and make a fairly decent living doing that. I would never have been able to make it as an artist without stripping. Everything I learned there about running my own business (from managing my own schedule to taxes) has applied. To me stripping was and is an invaluable job and I would encourage anyone who wanted to try it. I also pole dance outside of the club, both at home and in a dance studio because it’s fun and I love doing it.
As far as the pole dancing/stipping interface – I think that what people are eventually going to have to accept is that it’s in a different place for every person. Some people pole dance for fitness without ever caring if it’s sexy or not. Some people take up pole dancing to learn sexy moves. Some people just love dancing of any kind and embrace the sensuality of the way you can move on the pole as a part of the art form. Any of those people could also be a stripper.
I’ve see a lot of pole dancing, both in and out of strip clubs, and I’ve seen girls in clubs who were amazingly gymnastic but honestly not trying to be “sexy”, and girls in dance studios who were so sensual and fluid on the pole it would take your breath away.
The whole concept of “sexy” is actually sorta laughable to me because one of the things I’ve learned after working in strip clubs for this long is that there is no one kind of sexy. Every guy and girl likes something a little differet. Some people are going to find any kind of pole dancing sexy – just because that’s who they are. Other people couldn’t care what kind of dancing you’re doing – none of it is sexy or even something they care to watch at all (and yes, you definitely get those kind of people in a strip club).
Overall I think that people who derride pole dancing or stripping do it for the same reason. When a smart, articulate, and often well educated person tells someone that they do something that a smart, articulate, well educated person isn’t supposed to do it throws most people off balance menatlly. You’ve just proven their sterotypes wrong simply by speaking to them and, for many people, the only response to this is to now try and cram you into their little mental box where the sterotype used to be. Rather than being annoyed, I’m usually amused by it. Mostly because it’s fun to watch people with inflexible minds trying to do the mental gymnastics that making sense of the situation requires.
I was referring to another woman as far as someone being smart with the money.
I wish my daughter would save her money, but she’s still young and likes shopping/traveling too much. I’m hoping this other woman’s example can help my girl see the value in saving and diversifying. It’s kind of scary to think one badly twisted ankle or broken leg can put an end to your ability to work.
Thanks Pat. Really appreciate your insightful and open-minded perspective.
I worked in strip clubs for over 8 years and it is so very not black and white as many like to believe. Many smart dancers invest their money wisely, such as your daughter. What an awesome supportive mom you are and congratulations for teaching/inspiring her how to be an creative entrepreneur and to think and plan ahead.
@Pat – That was a great comment to read – thank you!. We are so used to being the pole dancer and the mom here that we can forget we are also daughters. Thank you for sharing such great perspective on your daughter’s work.
My daughter is a stripper, which she will tell you if you ask what she does. She is 20 years old and married (and an “A cup”!), and began stripping because it was the best paying job in the area! She is also an artist and a very good one, but that doesn’t pay the bills.
But she likes dancing quite a bit. She loves making up new outfits, talking with the men, and has a whole role-playing persona she takes with them.
It was difficult at first for me to wrap my head around my little girl taking her top off in front of men at the end of the dance (which is the only time they *have* to do that, otherwise it’s optional), but she has assured me that the security is very good, she uses an assumed name, and it’s one of the best clubs around.
My main fear has always been for her safety. There are so many ignorant hyper-religious people who might say cruel things, or stalkers who might try to follow her home or something. But she’s been doing this for almost 2 years now and hasn’t had any serious problems. She had to have work done on her car after a crash last year, and I drove her to work for a month or two and I never got any bad feelings about the place.
As someone else mentioned, she is licensed and her job is completely legal in our state. It’s interesting to read the comments here … the woman who owns the local pole dancing clothes/shoes place works at the same place, we found out. She drove three hours one way every weekend when she started out in order to work at this place, and used the money to buy herself a house and later the business. This woman (I’d say she’s in her late 20′s) is a wealthy entrepreneur from stripping and I think she would laugh at the idea that she was a victim or any such thing.
My daughter tells me that there are many of the men who just want someone to talk to. Soldiers who are about to be deployed, businessmen and schoolteachers who need somewhere to vent or brag about their day. There are a lot of guys who feel powerful by flashing their money around, giving girls money. It seems as if these women are doing a good thing, and it’s a bit sad to realize that a lot of these men are married yet can’t talk to their wives, who a lot of times don’t know their husbands go to these places.
But there are people who come in with their wives and girlfriends, and sometimes groups of women who come in too. My daughter has seen all sorts. The reality of a strip club as described by my daughter is nothing like I thought it would be.
I’m not a pole dancer (although my daughter keeps wanting me to start!) but I saw this article linked somewhere else and had to stop by and see what you said about it. Thanks for giving a balanced viewpoint.
For those of us who learned pole dancing from pole fitness – when we are asked “Are you a stripper/training to be a stripper/etc” the answer should be “No. But I could be, and I’d make a shitload of money.” Then we should smile and walk away. Because really, a lot of people are not going to get it at all that there is a distinction between doing it for money and doing it for yourself (even though there is, and it’s an important one). And honestly, for those of us who are drawn to pole dancing, we are not really going to give a shit what other people think about it anyway. Pole on.
So, I tried to read all the comments before posting, but there are a lot and I wanted to talk, I’ll go back and finish after I write. Normally when I get asked if I’m a “stripper” I just say ‘I don’t strip for money in front of people I don’t know’. In all honesty I’ve never actually stripped while dancing on my pole. I’ve stripped doing a chair dance or a lap dance for my boyfriend, but never actually on the pole (I should try to figure out how to do that gracefully).
A couple of weeks ago, though, my friend got very persistent with me and would not let the topic die. With comments like “so are you going to work your way through school with that?” “I wouldn’t let a stripper teach my kids” and asking for personal performances. All of this in front of his girlfriend who I’m also friends with. I think the thing that made me the most angry is that he said all that in front of her. I was offended that this person who is a friend really thought I would dance especially for him for money. I ended it by saying I could teach his girlfriend a few things and inviting her to a pole dance competition without him… he was pissed.
in his defense he had had a very rough day and it was the only thing he could seem to take it out on he apologized like 20 times the next day. I was mostly just mad at the disrespect toward his girlfriend.
Penny Lane (Felicia)
I think that their intention is to be respectful, I agree.
I have been in conversation with the filmmaker, and was happy to hear that they re-shot a lot of the footage from the clips. She also assured me it would not be offensive to exotic dancers, and that they consulted some in the making of the film.
I am looking forward to an updated movie trailer/clip.My fingers are crossed. You can see the conversation I was in on the youtube video response http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDWod2J8PcE
This has been a lively and important topic of discussion in the pole communities and I am grateful we all get to speak our mind and express our opinions.
Interesting … I think we may have misunderstood the intent of the video. More to come …
I like the video response. I do agree that we shouldn’t have to disown pole’s origins and pioneering dancers in order to love the sport.
Yes!
Here is the link to the video with the interviews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7gubCJjT7g
and here is my video response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDWod2J8PcE
@Catherine Rose, @Claire Griffin Sterrett – That video clip is bizarre. It’s not just sexy, it’s blatantly sexy, to the point where I think the filming fails to show either the nuance of the dance or the complexity of the moves. Where is the video with the interviews? I’d like to see that – do you have the link?
And I love that Nikki Craven is a part of it – the woman who got kicked out of APFA because it turned out she was a dancer (The BAD KIND). Hilarious.
Wow. I just watched the trailer and I almost laughed. I mean the images and clips are so sexy and sexual and then the interviews have these women sitting there saying that it’s not erotic. Are you F***ing kidding me? How about we just own the sexiness ladies? It honestly makes them look foolish.
Thank you for posting Jennifer, and thank you everyone for contributing to this conversation. It has been a pet peeve of mine, pole dancers and instructors who demonize the exotic dance industry and strippers. I recently came upon a trailer for a new documentary film about pole fitness competitions. I was both delighted that this film was being made but mortified at the opening title “The Sport with the Sordid Past”. The second video trailer includes 70% interviews why pole fitness is not erotic movement. The hypocrisy unnerves me. So, am glad to see this conversation alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA6XFewsaPc
let me start out by saying that ive read this whole blog…. i am a stripper i guess thats what most people would call it. i would like to enlighten you on the fact that it is a JOB you have to be LICENSED to do.On this license it says we are ADULT ENTERTAINER/SPECIAL PERFORMER. now with all of everyones sterotypes that everyone seems to have ill share a little about my experience. I was not a highschool drop out.I started at the age of 18 and found it to be a very exciting job and didnt come close to all the rumors and bad reps.Every club will have its bad apples,but Every job has this. we rent the space to entertain is all most of us work for ourselves. that’s right no pimp,no abuse, nothing crazy going on just work.i still dance today for the love of being on stage and on the pole. its been 6yrs now. i have a husband and four beautiful children and we live very normal lives. its a mistake to remain so closed minded and believe me we have been givin such a bad rep but all it took was a few bad people….please believe i take offense when judged i may be a stripper but not any of the other stuff…thanks for reading this.
Just a little update and after thoughts…
I was interviewed by one of China’s english biggest papers (China Daily) along with other pole dancers in conjunction with a pole dancing competition in Beijing.
I always thought that Chinese people were fairly tolerant towards pole dancing since I have never ever heard any Chinese person ask me if I am a stripper when they found out i pole dance, so I assumed it was because of the non-existence of strip clubs in China. However, the comments to the article online reveal something quite different. People are disgusted by pole dancing as they see it as the sleeze of the west synonomous with stripping and prostitution, tainting China’s youth.
So yeah, again, I do think it is really important that there is a distinction between the two. If pole dancing continues to be seen as a boarder line stripping it might very well become illegal in China.
I agree wholeheartedly with Kelly. I think she hit the issue straight on. There is a difference between strippers and pole dancers. They overlap, sure, but they are not the same thing. I have seen many strippers and I know some because I think there is something SO amazing about it. Especially, really good strippers. I dance on my pole but would not consider myself a stripper or anything like because I don’t take off my clothes for money. Nothing wrong with those who do though.
Also, I think it is a little silly to say that pole dancers took the art from strippers solely. Pole dance originated not only from strippers but also from belly dancers, circus performers, and is even traced back to some biblical writings. This is something that has been going on for a LONG time and wasn’t thought up by modern day strippers.
Thanks for the article and the great comments. Very interesting and informative. It also forced me to look in the mirror and figure out what I truly thought about this.
I’ve found this really interesting to read because I’ve always been one of those people who has always tried to distance myself from the stripper image of pole dancing. I actually really understand and like your argument, but I will still be distancing myself from being a stripper, I’m not one. I know next to nothing about strip clubs, and I don’t see myself ever being able to earn money from taking my clothes off and turning guys on because quite frankly i’m pretty sure i’d be shit at that, mostly because i wouldn’t enjoy it. i suppose the easiest way to explain how i feel about equating pole-dancing with stripping is to use a different thing to compare it with. I’ve heard a lot of people compare pole-dancing with gymnastics, and there are some clear similarities; gravity defying tricks and massive amounts of strength and flexibility. But I’m not a gymnastics style pole dancer any more than i’m a stripper pole dancer for the simple reason I can’t do gymnastics beyond the similarities found on the pole. So i’m not a stripper, I’m not a gymnast, I suck at accounting, and when I paint pictures they don’t look like what i’m drawing, these are all skills i can’t do, and if I found myself in a situation where people would assume i was teaching people how to do one of these because of something i said i would put them right. For me this isn’t about shitting on pole dancers who work in clubs, its about being clear about what i do and don’t do. I can do a freakin awesome handspring, I can’t do it topless in front of a room full of paying men.
To be honest, none of us will ever get away from the negative connotations surrounding pole dance. I’ve had people defriend me on facebook and ask me if my father knows what i’m doing(I’m 29 and quite frankly doubt he cares). Yes, pole came from exotic dancers,and I’ve got no problem with that. I do, however, object to equating pole fitness with exotic dancing. the difference? the objective. I can’t think of any exotic dancers who strip to learn a new skill or get fit. They do it for the same reason I go to work: to support themselves. Also, my style of poling isnt sexy or done as a performance for customers. I think lumping it all together is a little ignorant.
I loved reading this blog, and the comments. I’m a married 41 year old mother of 3. 2 teens and a 2 year old. I’m an insurance analysts with the same company for 10 years.
I danced as a stripper for many years in my 30ies. I learned the industry and the postive and negative sides to it-but I have to say with complete honesty-I loved it. Not so much the dealings with costomers..but the dancing, and losing yourself in the dance. I came away from that carrer with nothing but great memories.
During my time as a stipper in the clubs I always marveled at the women who worked the pole…but I never really did too much of it..it may be different now or in other clubs but the money was in the private dances..not in the pole. Pole was used more for showcasing a dancer.,
Now years later I find DIVAfit and I can re live some of the eroticism of the dance -without the customers!! I love it and am so happy for the sexy outlet.
Thanks to all the pole dancers and for this new industry, I can still feel and participate in this sexy artform! I love you guys!!
Kay
This has been an interesting conversation between many people making fair points.
However, it was frustrating for me to hear so many opinions and judgments from people who have never been a stripper, known a stripper, or even been inside a club.
I’ve been a dancer for a little over a year and although I don’t feel even slightly ashamed of my profession, it can be hard for me to tell people because of the harsh criticisms and misconceptions that surround the job.
I’m a happy, drug-free, college educated young lady with a loving family. I CHOSE stripping, and not as a last resort. My co-workers are almost exclusively strong, intelligent, genuine women. Several of them are award winning pole champions. It pains me every time I see/hear myself and my close friends slandered by “holier than thou” ignorance.
As independent contractors, we are responsible for marketing ourselves, filing taxes, meeting goals and other business skills that go far beyond shaking our butt cheeks for money.
I’m certainly not saying its not a difficult, unique job. Just like yours, my job has its ups and downs. So please please please don’t judge what you don’t know. It makes me feel sad