Does Pole Dancing Really Need Standards?
Who says pole dancing needs standards?
It’s become such a common statement out there in the pole community, people saying how OF COURSE pole dancing needs standards and agreed-upon names for moves.
But, the thing I keep thinking is … umm, why?
What does it matter?
The only answer I can come up with is, for competitions – so people will understand what’s required. Which makes sense in terms of how many of a certain type of move you need to do, or how long you need to hold a move, or how you need to get into a move. But if you get into a certain move safely and smoothly, does it really matter how you got there? And, as long as the move is described so all understand what is being discussed, does the name really need to be the same one used all over the world?
As far as I can see, the only reason all competitions need to have the same names and the same standards is if people are hoping those competitions will eventually lead to competing in pole dancing in the Olympics.
Aside from that, as long as the rules are explained, what’s the difference? Why should it matter?
Ballet, Belly Dance, and Pole Dancing
Ballet is a perfect example of a dance that does not compete in the Olympics and, as far as I know, only competes at all in the sense that there are very few slots available for all the extremely talented dancers out there. Yet ballet has very strict standards, and all decent ballet studios instill those standards in their students.
So maybe that’s how people are thinking about pole dancing – that, like ballet, all students need to share the same names for moves, in order to communicate with one another.
But that’s not the only way to run a dance style.
Belly dance, to offer a contrast, has existed, in one form or another, for thousands and thousands of years, with dozens of different names per move. Yet that hasn’t held belly dance down one bit.
Sure, belly dancers from different parts of the world, or even different parts of a given country, may have different names for the same move, but they still will recognize in an instant which move is being done. And they will know just as quickly whether they can do it or not. Most importantly, if they have had any competent training at all, they will also be able to tell at a glance the skill level of the person performing it.
Safety and Smooth Execution
Personally, I think the only thing that matters is that a given move be performed safely and smoothly, with a seamless transition into and out of the move. Other than that, I don’t really give a damn.
And maybe that is what the people pushing for standards want. The thing is, I can’t really tell, and the dialogue doesn’t seem to be coming from a wide range of the pole community. It seems to be coming from parts focused on the Olympics. That’s fine, but I think it’s the same issue raised in Yannori’s post on pole dancing in the Olympics, in which she points out the profound absence of commentary from the bulk of pole dancers.
So here’s what I think:
In my opinion, standards should have to do with core strength and posture and proper training. Believe me, most pole dancers find out the hard way if they’ve been getting crappy training – which is to say, they find out because they’ve gotten injured.
To me, that’s the main issue and the main concern.
Which brings up the issue of confidence in whoever sets these standards. Who is setting them and what do we, as a pole dance community, feel about that?
It’s one thing to talk the talk about safety and another to walk the walk. How do we ensure that those speaking for the community, those setting these standards, are actually walking the walk?
Now what do you think?
What do you think pole dancing standards should be? Do you think we need any at all?
Do you really care if all pole dancers use the same name for a given move? Do you see some purpose for it that I’m missing?
And how would you determine who can really walk the walk on training and safety?
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
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By the way, don’t forget to say hi to me at the USPDF next week! I would LOVE to meet you all in person!
Merry Ellen really stated that well.
This sandbox is huge. One can play with shovels or Barbies, while another has a dump-truck. You don’t even have to share your particular toy. Just be safe!
This industry must unite and become a legitimate force that is respected now, and for always. A common language ensures this, so does having our sport shown and demonstrated with other recognized sports globally.
Terminology is vital to communication between us, and long over due.
The PFA has aligned with many countries, and pole professionals for over a year to get a standard language decided on.
We will make available to anyone who wants to start speaking the same language in May at the Pole Expo in D.C.
I encourage all of you to consider adopting it. It can only make a positive impact.
And besides all of that, speaking the same language in our studio’s, when traveling to other studios, at Competitions, other countries, and yes, when in the Olympics someday, does one VERY important thing for our Pole Community, and industry at large….It ensures SAFETY. As a Fitness professional of any kind, this IS the most important part of training.
We can all share these amazing view points and build with eachother, it all matters. Speaking the same language is also about SHARING. It is time for all of these things.
Speaking the same language also ensures that Pole Dance, and Fitness becomes a legitimate sport. Not a fad.
That means everything to me and my business.
This was a fun virtual visit, Thank You for letting me share some of my thoughts.
Love an Pole support from Utah! Hope to see you all again in May!
‘Or even some that allow alcohol before and even DURING class!’
Er…what? That’s unbelievably irresponsible. What instructor in their right mind would allow that?
I actually do think there should be a standardization of names, just because it’s very confusing sometimes when someone comments on a video of mine and says ‘Nice blah blah’ or ‘Your blah blah is coming along pretty well, but you should try this to smooth it out,’ and I have NO idea what they’re talking about or what they think I should work on, because they’re using a different name than the one I learned.
However, I agree that as long as someone does a move safely and beautifully (nice transitions all the way through,) who gives a crap exactly how they got up into it, as long as everything looked strong and graceful and they’re not doing something that could potentially cause an injury? I trained in Shudokan for about five years and used to think the same thing about that as well–as long as the moves works for self defense and is a strong enough technique to protect you should you ever need to use it, then why does it matter if my foot is at an exact 45 degree angle when it doesn’t really have any bearing on the move aside from the fact that years ago some guy decided that was the way it should be done?
When I watch someone pole dance, I’m looking at the way they move into and out of moves, whether it’s graceful and flowing and strong, and is their floor work smooth and well done–I don’t look at them and go ‘Hmm, when so-and-so showed me how to do this move, their hand was here, and hers is in a little bit different spot, so she’s wrong.’
@Mary Ellyn – You have a wonderful ability to broaden, rather than polarize discussions. I think you make a damn fine point about the fact that ANY interest in pole will increase interest in all kinds of pole!
First of all, I support the concept of standardizing names of pole moves for the sake of communication – but not to enforce conformity. I think it would be great to have two “languages” in pole dancing. One so that we can communicate internationally – probably through the use of basic and description (translate that “boring”) names and then each school can also, if they choose, to use other names but also teaches their students the universal list. In essence we should all be multi-lingual.
My students have learned two names for many of our moves and have had no problem learning or remembering under two different names.
As for the Olympics..first I find it surprising that everyone who is against it seems to think that the ONLY reason out there for pole to be in the Olympics is to validate what we do and to get pole dancing accepted!
I would like to see pole in the Olympics for two reasons. The first is I think it would just be fun! Yep…that’s my professional opinion based on years of experience – it would be a blast!
Two…and I have no problem admitting this…publicity. IF it gets into the Olympics in ANY form it will drive more business for ALL forms of pole. Yes many will expect to find the version they see but they will learn there are other versions out there and lets face it…most will not be able to do what they see if pole makes it into the Olympics so they will be happy to learn pole in any format.
I also do not understand the concerns that pole in the Olympics will change anything we do. Putting pole in the Olympics will not FORCE anyone to do anything differently. There is no governing body that polices how we teach pole dancing and even if there was one unified pole organization they would never be able to enforce how an individual school teaches.
Safety and teaching…Safety has long been a priority for me and something I have invested a lot of time, study and collaboration into building my program. It upsets me greatly to hear about schools that do not teach even the most basic body mechanics, do not use safe instructional methods like spotting and crash mats, or even some that allow alcohol before and even DURING class!
When I see an instructor teach I hope to see someone who can break down the moves in various ways. Someone who can figure out what demonstrations and what words work for each of their students. Not everyone can learn using the same words so as a really great instructor you have to learn to use many different descriptions when you teach so that your students can understand what you’re trying to convey.
I agree that the names of moves should be somewhat standardized. When someone posts on SV asking for help with a move that no one has ever heard of, we end up needing to ask for a video with a time marker or for them to describe the move. It’s annoying, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a testament to the creativity of pole for everyone to have different names – it’s more of a testament to how disorganized our activity is.
Safety standards are an absolute MUST! I’m self-taught so I don’t have the problem of worrying about whether my instructor knows what their doing (well, unless you count myself as my instructor, lol), but I’ve heard plenty of horror stories – enough to make me scared of going for studio lessons if I had the opportunity.
I posted a horror story that I read from SV on my blog, as part of the Olympic post I did.
And, as Yannori said, I’d rather have the safety standards set than the names, if I had to choose. But hopefully we’ll have both someday, and that it’s clear which is the priority…
As far as who should be in charge of establishing such things, that’s a tough one. This topic is a future blog post I have planned, so I won’t go into much detail here, but I will say that I think it should be a democratic approach with support and collaboration between members of the entire pole community. There has been some drama recently with certain pole organizations (I think you all know what I’m referring to) and no matter who was right or wrong, it still leaves me shaking my head that it came to that. I’ve said on my blog that I fear that the pole community and leaders will turn snobby and basically get a god complex instead of just wanting to work together…
Hi all – I wanted to reply back to all the great comments yesterday, but I admit I fell asleep on the couch with my latest read (does anyone else here like the Needlecraft Mysteries??? LOVE THEM!).
Sounds like some of us like standards and some of us don’t.
I can see the point about wanting names the same. I’m still curious, though, about the safety standards. Sometimes I wonder if I’m the only one out here who has encountered unsafe pole instruction – it has made me far less trusting.
So, I’m asking all of you who are more advanced at pole than I am (which is ALL of you), what are the things that jump out at you when you see someone teaching? Things that make you say that person really knows her stuff, or things that make you wonder how that person ever thought she could teach.
I do want names to be standardized because I believe it will make it easier for instructors, students, and dancers to communicate with each other in a community that so often talks online, where it is hard to show what you are doing. Also, coming from a ballet background, I like knowing the names of moves and having a vocabulary to build off of. I do think it would be helpful in constructing safety standards and establishing difficulty levels for moves, etc. The more we can break down and describe the movement, the better we ccan teach it. As far as who I trust to do this, I would say people who have many years of experience and people who have fitness certifications or health degrees.
Personally, I don’t have any need for standardized pole trick names as defined by a pole federation. I teach tricks progressively using the PoleCat Power method. So, I use aerial naming conventions (which were established long before pole dancing existed) & pole movement “families” based off of my teaching progression. The naming convention I use helps my students understand a trick (including proper technique & body form) even if they’ve never seen it before.
I’d rather see the pole federations spend their time on developing safety standards rather than naming all the tricks.
I like standardization. It takes the guess work out of am I going to a good school, because all schools are the same. I used to compete in ballroom we all had the same INTERNATIONAL syllabus. Agreed technique and discipline will only take you so far, but it’ll remove some of the obstacles so you can progress further. This applies in all walks of life whether it’s snowboarding or yoga or pole dancing.
As for who should set the standards, it should be those that want to bother. If someone doesn’t like it change it. Teaching syllabus evolve no matter what the discipline.
Here’s my opinion:
http://lolorashel.blogspot.com/2010/03/weighing-in-on-debate-pole-dancing-in.html
I think that it would be helpful to have a coomon name for each move that everyone uses so that when I post a video on YouTube and a fellow polers says “Hey, Nice Loopedy Doo Spin” and then I have to say “What’s a Loopedy Doo spin?” and then they have to go into an attempt to describe the move to me and it’s not until days later that we have gotten it straightened out and then I can finally say “Thanks.” LMAO!!!